r/worldnews • u/ArgentineBeauty • 21h ago

Russia/Ukraine ‘We Were Mistaken’: Putin Admits Russia Was Unprepared for Ukrainian Strikes on Oil Refineries

https://www.kyivpost.com/post/83674
26.1k Upvotes

95% Upvoted

3.0k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

3.4k

u/AMW1987 21h ago

Putin's Russia is a pure case study in cognitive dissonance.

2.1k

u/CumAmore 21h ago

I don't think he actually believes what he says, it's more a case study of how you get your countrymen to believe everything you say.

702

u/FlukemanFrancis 21h ago

It almost certainly splits along the good old 1/3 rule

1/3 of them support him

1/3 genuinely don’t care about anything except themselves and their immediate circle

1/3 are against it but in a society like Russia have learned to keep quiet. If Russia were normal that 1/3 would be doing standard political opposition and trying to persuade the 1/3 of selfish assholes to vote with them to overcome the 1/3 of mindless bootlickers.

548

u/ruchik 20h ago

This sounds like the US as well…

121

u/Ambitious_Bit_9389 20h ago

This person 1/3rds are not based on political stance though. The 1/3 of each category could be spread across the whole political spectrum.

201

u/Straight-Balance830 19h ago

In the American Revolution, a third were Loyalists, another third were revolutionaries, and the other third were indifferent. About the Nazis, someone remarked “a third of society killed the other third, and the last third just watched”. I think it’s a valid general rule of ideological distribution.

155

u/Yardsale420 19h ago

Dear America:
You are waking up, as Germany once did, to the awareness that 1/3 of your people would kill another 1/3, while 1/3 watches.
—Werner Herzog

14

u/unurbane 19h ago

When was that written?

39

u/Odie_Odie 18h ago

He didnt say it really but the fabrication spread in 2017 according to Politifaq. I believe the quote but I just think it came from some tweet.

→ More replies (2)

10

u/chiPersei 18h ago

This quote was not said by filmmaker Werner Herzog; it originated from a satirical Twitter parody account @WernerTwertzog in 2017.

→ More replies (1)

11

u/CheshireCat78 18h ago

Just now. 😁

I’m sorry I will see myself out.

→ More replies (2)

6

u/Adjective_Noun_2000 18h ago

It's a great quote but it's not from Herzog. It's from a Twitter account called Werner Twertzog (back in the days before Twitter was lost to the first 1/3).

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/werner-herzog-germany-quote/

1

u/WizardSleeves31 18h ago

I love his voice.

1

u/seeingeyegod 16h ago

It's so much more powerful when you read it in his voice.

1

u/Unhappy_Mycologist_6 10h ago

Dear America: You are waking up, as Germany once did, to the awareness that 1/3 of your people would kill another 1/3, while 1/3 watches. —Werner Herzog

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/werner-herzog-germany-quote/

10

u/Xtj8805 18h ago

Yea ive seen numerous studies where in essentially any population of people and even most subpopulations always tend to split this way, 1/3 to each side and 1/3 in the middle cant be bothered. Even in more ideologically pure areas you still get it to some some extent where 1/3 are full steam, 1/3 tend to be overly cautious and 1/3 somewhere between/not interested in picking sides.

1

u/RushIllustrious 18h ago

So if you're not watching, you better do the killing or you'll be killed is what I learned here.

20

u/mattmillze 20h ago

Same thing could be said about Americans. There are people on both sides that fit neatly into all three of these categories. Main difference is that ours flips every 4-8 years and people switch which category they're in at the time.

1

u/baumpop 17h ago

every single city and town has the rules of thirds

12

u/Environmental-Video3 18h ago

Americans have the ability to, and the strongest will, to say whatever they want whenever they want.

The ratios of support for government are applicable to any country.

In terms of political opposition though Russians are bred to say nothing to nobody about anything. Ever. They used to be disappeared during Stalinist purges but now they just have poorly maintained windows.

4

u/fairlywired 16h ago

Maybe it's just the way it looks from the outside but it always seems like Americans will stage a couple protests for big issues but when there's no immediate change, most go back to just putting up with it and complaining online.

People seem to be more content with asking if it's time to do something than actually doing something.

6

u/derinus 18h ago

That ability is fading. We'll see about that will power when ICE knocks on the door

2

u/DefinitelynotaDAPL 18h ago

Yep. We've never really had secret "police"(i use that term lightly) disappearing people... until now.

2

u/bigrv 16h ago

Also they have those special handguns that allow you to commit suicide by shooting yourself twice in the back of the head.

1

u/Environmental-Video3 15h ago

America has those too. See Barry Seal.

1

u/Ghazzz 17h ago

I feel there are very few dissenting opinions coming out of the white house. It all seems very strictly kept in line.

2

u/Environmental-Video3 17h ago

I’m not talking about politicians toeing the party line. They will say what their whip tells them to say.
The average citizen though has the enshrined in law right to scream at and berate their representatives wherever they want.

1

u/Ghazzz 3h ago

There being a whip telling politicians how to act is a fantastic example of cultural suppression of dissenting voices.

1

u/Environmental-Video3 1h ago

That’s how political parties be all over the world. And management boards of companies and NGOs and schools and plenty of other types of organisations. But the average US citizen still has the right to say whatever they want.

1

u/oxnume 14h ago

Amercans have no will. Just a bunch of pathetic losers that pretend to be tough but will gladly lick the boot.

1

u/FuckOffClippy 13h ago

> Americans have the ability to, and the strongest will, to say whatever they want whenever they want.

In many respects, and in a lot of the time, yes. But not under Nixon, not during Vietnam, and not under Trump. Shit ain’t so great here right now. The Feds are killing people for speaking up, shooting and beating people up left and right, and charging everyone else that they can to put them through the wringer, to bankrupt them—with no safety nets!—and to ruin their lives.

1

u/Consistent_Slice_752 8h ago

It's just a matter of time. He's declared all media and people who criticize him "enemies. " he has his AG attack and criticize lawful protesters after they were murdered by the American Gestapo (ICE). Some folks were just in the wrong place at were following law enforcement instructions and got murdered anyway.

3

u/Wayelder 19h ago

eerily familliar.

2

u/DGtlRift 18h ago

Especially since somehow the orange stain still has 33% approval among the electorate.

3

u/Wayelder 18h ago

They'll fall together as they held each other up.

In both Nations they've reversed the power roles. The State Rules the people. The people fear the state.

That's new-ish n the USA - the reverse of what they've had for 30 years

2

u/Ok-Selection4206 18h ago

Because of the useless lying idiots on the other side of the aisle.

2

u/vortox1234 18h ago

Blame everyone but the people voting for evil

3

u/AdventurousVast6510 15h ago

except that the comment you replied to is untrue

3

u/noir_lord 14h ago

The US is where Russia was 25ish years ago, I didn't think the US would get this bad this fast given Russia always had weak democratic institutions (given they where a decade old and the US was 250 years old and mostly stable since late 19th) but here we are.

Americans if you want to see your current future in a decade or so at most, look at Russia circa ~2015 basically.

5

u/Helmett-13 18h ago

If that was true our prisons were be full to capacity with political opponents...well, the ones that weren't tossed out of windows.

Americans aren't scared to speak up about the shitty things their government perpetrates.

When was the last time a "No More Kings" protest was held in Moscow? Ah, yes, that's right.

2

u/tdog_2005 17h ago

Yes the world would be a lot better place with out Putin and Trump , both evil pos

1

u/Fingersicle 18h ago

Crazy how the land of Ruby Ridge, militias and Waco have become.

1

u/DecantsForAll 11h ago

If Russia were normal that 1/3 would be doing standard political opposition and trying to persuade the 1/3

Yeah, except in the US instead of 1/3 doing standard political opposition and trying to persuade the 1/3, or learning to keep quiet, they actively try to push that 1/3 to the other side.

→ More replies (8)

45

u/Accomplished-Cow-234 20h ago

It's hard to meaningfully organize effective dissent, because so much of the visible opposition is itself a honeypot. Putinism has really brought rot all the way to the core of an already deeply damaged society.

19

u/oops_all_memes 17h ago

I knew a person who worked on multiple projects lead by Navalny. So it made it comfortable for me to share a lot of information with them that I would otherwise keep to myself. Including information that would've completely compromised me

Well, yesterday I accidentally stumbled on an interview where that person explains that they used to work with FSB 🤡 For context, I left Russia because someone reported me to authorities due to certain activities that the gestapo deemed inappropriate. I now wonder if it had anything to do with that person

That is to say, you are absolutely right and the mofos have their hands in everyone's arses

4

u/Accomplished-Cow-234 17h ago

Seems like the only social trust you can really have is trust that someone is compromised and for everyone else, that could be you. It is a sad state of affairs.

•

u/onarainyafternoon 20m ago

This reminds me of my grandfather. He was from Hungary, was alive during the war and for the entirety of the Soviet times. When the wall came down and the Warsaw pact countries liberalized, and all the intelligence agency files were declassified, he found out one of his closest friends had been reporting on him and everyone else for decades.

6

u/Wyrmnax 17h ago

Well, it is not just Putinism. It tends to happen on all types of dictatorships. Because there is always a lot of people that are discontent with the government, and if the people in power let it show, it gains strenght quickly.

So you have to stomp it out before it even begins, all the time. It is also one of the reasons why free press is such a important concept of democracy - because you need to be able to criticize the people in power openly to be able to steer the country in another direction.

3

u/Accomplished-Cow-234 16h ago

For sure. The FSB didn't invent the tactic, it is just incredible how many pies their fingers are in.

2

u/Lepelotonfromager 13h ago

That can work in the short run but just like with the soviet union it's a rot that eventually collapses society. If people can't meaningfully criticise or provide feedback, if the elite become a protected class then the corruption just sets in.

Just look at the Russian armoury turning out to be about half of what was on paper because so much stuff had been embezzled or left to rot.

29

u/jwyn3150 18h ago

I’ve been to and lived in Russia. His support is closer to 60% or even more. Everyone over 50 loves him due to what happened in the 90s , basically. Generalization but that’s what it felt like in SPB which is the most liberal city in Russia, where funny enough is where he’s from.

14

u/Lia64893 18h ago

I was only there for a month two years ago and you’re right. All of my mom’s friends and family voted for him except my uncle and maybe my cousin. I had a girl my age tell me that Russia isn’t invading Ukraine, they’re defending themselves from Ukraine’s attacks. And that was July 2024.

→ More replies (1)

1

u/More_Passenger3988 15h ago

Even though they support him due to the 90s, the question I have is do they really believe him and support this war?

They're being told that they're attacking the Ukraine to save them from literal Nazis and I can't believe they buy that sh**.

4

u/Professional-Swan-18 14h ago

There definitely are people that buy that entire narrative. It would be next to impossible to put a number on it due to how things work in Russia, but I would wager everything I have that at least 25% are fully on board with everything Putin claims.

Having seen how fully large numbers of US citizens eat up every nugget of shit from Rumpy's dementia riddled diaper when there is freely available media reporting on facts to the contrary makes it easy to see how even more people would fall for it when the environment is far more controlled.

1

u/More_Passenger3988 14h ago

See, I'm convinced that a lot of people in the MAGA camp don't really believe anything Trump says- they just don't care. They simply feel the need to defend their cult leader and whether or not he's lying doesn't concern them all that much. Many of the folks I know that work in finance and support him will straight up admit he's a lyer and that he's a bad business man but they still support him anyway because they think he's pushing for certain things they support. I know religious Jews that know he's a lyer but they still support him because they say, "No other president bothered to get our hostages back".

And of course there are those that actually do believe him as well, but I think that's a smaller pool.

I wonder if it's the same with Putin.

2

u/Professional-Swan-18 14h ago

I definitely agree that not all of MAGA are true believers. But there are more true believers, cult follower types in the Republican party now than ever before I'd wager. And the way it was built is exactly the same as how Putin built his support in Russia. He just has both more tools at his disposal and has been doing it for longer, so I have high confidence that he has more true believers than Rumpy does.

ETA: more true believers percentage wise. Actual numbers would be much harder to gauge.

2

u/jwyn3150 13h ago

Maybe not the younger generation but the older yeah. They get bombarded by nothing but state issued propaganda 24/7.

1

u/IllImprovement700 1h ago

But maybe that 60% could still be split into 30% who are hardcore supporters and 30% who doesn't really care what is happening but is inclined to support him. Like one half is active supporter and one half is just passive supporter.

But maybe what I'm saying is stupid, I don't know.

5

u/unknown-one 19h ago

and thats the problem

horrible incompetence of western countries and even ukraine in doing any psyops on ruZZians

at the same time ruZZia pays politicians, influencers, people working for government, media, celebrities etc to create mess in western countries with propaganda and fake new

3

u/magnus150 18h ago

I mean, it IS the country that taught me that "defenestration" happens enough that there is a whole word for it.

2

u/Detox208 18h ago

This is America

1

u/Advanced-Budget779 19h ago

What‘s the source to that rule? Sounds interesting.

1

u/MJsD4d828 18h ago

Normal country? What, like the states? 🤣

1

u/MySixHourErection 18h ago

Are there any actual studies on this? It feels intuitively correct, but I'd like to know what the data and analysis show.

1

u/TenchuReddit 18h ago

The percentages I’ve seen are more like 25% in favor, 25% against but staying quiet, and 50% in deep depoliticized denial.

1

u/BurningPenguin 17h ago

That's under the assumption that elections are fair. Which isn't really the case in Russia.

1

u/MxM111 17h ago

I would guess it is more like 20/60/20

1

u/Doggydad73 17h ago

Gee, this sounds like USA to me!

1

u/DLeck 17h ago

Russian elections are without a doubt rigged enough so Putin will never lose an election. Putin is a puppet for the Russian oligarchs. Russia is essentially an Oligarchy with Putin acting as dictator.

1

u/VikSick 17h ago

2.98/3 supports him. All the sane ones left before war

1

u/PJballa34 16h ago

Nice take

1

u/lecho182 11h ago

It more like 50%, 40%, 10% in Russia

→ More replies (2)

39

u/Westerdutch 19h ago

I don't think he actually believes what he says

Russia has a long and proud history where everyone lies, everyone knows they all lie and they all play along anyways because telling the truth or showing a divide in opinion makes everyone look worse than just playing along with the lie.

26

u/MyUsername2459 18h ago

This is the same civilization that brought us "We pretend to work, they pretend to pay us."

That sort of "we all know this is BS, but let's just pretend it's normal" is baked pretty deeply into their society after generations of Tsars and dictators.

3

u/vladikusi 18h ago

Funnily enough, my Russian university teacher (she was teaching workplace ethics/psychology or something along those lines, but absolutely loved to share her political opinions for whatever reason) attributed this phenomenon to Russia's rapid westernisation and transition to capitalism in the '90s. She argued that the newly established system didn't fit the Russian spirit and only encouraged the things you're talking about, bringing out the worst tendencies of people. She also recounted some anecdotes about first Western factories in Russia facing the harsh reality of the local workers. (Though, of course, NOW Russia is heading in absolutely the right direction!!!)

I honestly disagree with the notion of it being something "cultural" and deeply ingrained, but for what its worth, I find it interesting that even the Russian patriots would kinda agree with you, just with a different idea of who/what to blame.

6

u/BigUptokes 18h ago

The word "hypernormalisation" was coined by Alexei Yurchak, a professor of anthropology who was born in Leningrad and later went to teach at the University of California, Berkeley. He introduced the word in his book "Everything Was Forever, Until It Was No More: The Last Soviet Generation" (2006), which describes paradoxes of Soviet life during the 1970s and 1980s. He says everyone in the Soviet Union knew the system was failing, but no one could imagine any alternative to the status quo, and politicians and citizens alike were resigned to maintaining the pretense of a functioning society. Over time, the mass delusion became a self-fulfilling prophecy, with everyone accepting it as the new norm rather than pretend, an effect Yurchak termed "hypernormalisation".

2

u/ContractElegant4310 17h ago

I've talked to older Russian immigrants who came to the US literally as soon as they could in the early 90s, and they said that no one, not even the party apparatchiks, believed the stupid propaganda on TASS or in the pages of Pravda or Izvestia in the 70s-80s. Everyone knew the system was a mess but until Gorbachev came along the cost of expressing any skepticism or dissent was too high, so almost everyone just played along to avoid any trouble.

3

u/BloodShotEye13 18h ago

This sounds like my North American workplace.

2

u/Puzzled-Relief2916 18h ago

Sounds like a certain orange buffoon took a page out of the Putin playbook.

2

u/Westerdutch 18h ago

I genuinely doubt he is aware that he is lying, hes so far gone that he thinks whatever he makes up is now the truth and that's so much worse.

1

u/funguyshroom 16h ago

I think it's worse, they purposefully repeat the lie until they start actually believing their own lies and forget that originally they were supposed to be lies.

18

u/MishkaZ 18h ago

There was a russian leftist who actually talked about what the brain washing that goes on in Russia is like.

It's not this grand "WE ARE THE BEST AND EVERYONE SUCKS, GLORY TO PUTIN! GLORY TO RUSSIA". It's constantly at every single turn lying and spinning and goal post moving for decades on top of disappearing anyone who challenged the regime. Real brain washing isn't falling into the spin, but real brain washing is keeping your head down. When someone brings up politics, you respond with "yeah, but you know, it's complicated" and then shrugging and walking away. Not putting an extra ounce of thought into it.

It's not brain washing in the sense of blind patriotism. It's brain washing in the sense of being numb to the noise that is politics.

Just something to think about. Really changed my perspective when I became aware of this type of numbing.

3

u/the_jivest_turkey 11h ago

That's illuminating, thanks for sharing

139

u/Constant-Plant-9378 20h ago

MAGA was originally a Russian export product.

120

u/terid3 20h ago

Yup. Remember the "lock her up" rallies in 2016? Proven Russian Psy-op. Pepperidge farm remembers.

68

u/Good_Restaurant15 20h ago

I remember when the NRA was found to have been working for the russians, having a russian agent in it, and doling out russian money like it was going out of style...

Funny how that just - fizzled away.

28

u/terid3 19h ago

Same here. And yeah, it all just got swept under the rug while Trump and Maga hollered about the "Russia Hoax" painting themselves as victims.

17

u/Tall-Introduction414 19h ago

Classic DARVO. MAGA is an entire political ideology based on mental illness, narcisism and supporting evil.

4

u/MattinglyBaseball 18h ago

Remember when the online “Progressives” continued to push ‘both sides’ despite this? It’s the ongoing psyops to divide the left.

1

u/terid3 13h ago

I have no doubt. As a younger gen X, I worry about the how much political-historical knowledge the younger generations have of the last two decades. In the 80's, for instance, a lot happened to change the course of my life, but as a child of the 80's I have only in the past few years begun to have a sense of those events. Likewise it feels like the political foundation for today's current events were laid in the 90's and 00's. So I wonder how much awareness many younger people in their 20's and 30's have now? I say this in the context of having been raised in the deep South and having to shake a lot of programming and fill in A Lot of knowledge gaps.

2

u/fugaziozbourne 18h ago

See also: Canada

2

u/terid3 13h ago

Yes, I was very relieved when Trump pissed Canadians off and derailed Maple Maga. The danger is still there though. If we get of here alive both the U.S. and Canada need a come to Jesus moment regarding their colonial/imperialist roots.

1

u/MATlad 13h ago

'Jade Helm' in 2015.

6

u/MyUsername2459 18h ago

I've got a wonderful meme saved on my hard drive, I'd share it here if I could.

It's a picture of Vladimir Putin captioned:

Buy American!

Donald Trump is the best purchase I ever made.

→ More replies (3)

10

u/JarasM 19h ago

Well, that's exactly the case. The Kremlin would never admit to hitting civilian targets. Internal media will paint Russian attacks as surgical strikes against military targets, and Ukrainian attacks as terrorism against civilian infrastructure.

10

u/Haunting-South-962 19h ago

I don't know, man. After that many years of lying, it is hard to peel off the truths from reality:) he might actually believe in all those things by now. You can't be that consistently and convincingly crazy without total immersion.

16

u/Snitsie 20h ago

Honestly he's had people say "yes" to him for so long now i wouldn't be surprised if he truly believed all he says. Like unlimited power destroys a humans mind.

13

u/smartestgiant 20h ago

It’s notable how leaders who have been in power for a long time can become somewhat insulated from everyday realities when most of the people around them tend to agree with them. Prolonged authority can sometimes create an environment where accurate feedback is limited. Did you see the recent reports about a temporary drop in petrol prices in a Russian city during a presidential visit, with the prices returning to previous levels shortly after the visit ended? It raises the question of whether local adjustments are sometimes made around official trips, either for practical reasons or in connection with public optics.

2

u/ourlittlevisionary 18h ago

A modern age Potemkin village!

1

u/ContractElegant4310 17h ago

Like a modern version of the Potemkin village.

0

u/Good_Restaurant15 20h ago

Putin? nah. He's KGB.

This is all an act. Don't ever forget that Putin isn't/wasn't Just a KGB member. He was THE KGB. Without him, the KGB would not be what it is today/has been all this time.

He absolutely knows he's bullshitting everyone. Its all an act. It is working.

9

u/FrankBattaglia 19h ago

Don't ever forget that Putin isn't/wasn't Just a KGB member. He was THE KGB. Without him, the KGB would not be what it is today/has been all this time.

That's some pro-Putin mythology. He was KGB middle management. He had a decent career, sure, but his highest post was a second-tier city in East Germany. He was head of the FSB for a bit, but that was a very short stint.

9

u/Chihuey 19h ago

Putin was a pencil pusher in a backwater the KGB dumped its B team. He had no real influence when the KGB existed, that said he has put a lot of effort into shaping his image as some sort of powerful spy.

→ More replies (2)

1

u/meepmeep13 18h ago

and when he does one of his 5 hour boring droning speeches about the long and myriad reasons throughout the last 700 years of why a revanchist approach to territory is justified, who exactly is this act for?

even the hawkest pro-dictator generals and oligarchs at his wing are nodding off during those snoozefests

like all dictators, he is at heart an extremely tedious person motivated solely by a bizarre and long-festering grudge

3

u/Good_Restaurant15 18h ago

who exactly is this act for?

His public.

You think they don't listen to him? Maybe not 100% of them, but surely, more than 0.

It doesn't take a large amount of support to effect total control. Nazi Germany did so with similar numbers as Trump. All it takes is for the majority of the population to not participate. Coincidentally, it isn't very hard to disillusion people to the point of complacency.

1

u/meepmeep13 18h ago

Have you ever actually listened to one of these speeches?

I recommend you do to see just exactly how tedious they are - and how they can't be part of an act, because there's literally nobody they appeal to other than Putin himself.

1

u/Good_Restaurant15 18h ago

.... have you heard one of Trump's speeches?

Yet...

Perhaps there is a certain cult of personality at play? Putin absolutely promotes himself to be a man's man. Macho bullshit prevails.

1

u/meepmeep13 15h ago

Yes, exactly, his speeches are like Trump's, and similar in that even his staunchest supporters get bored by halfway through

i.e. it's not an act, they're both tedious bores.

And yes, absolutely there's cults of personality at play - to distract from the fact that in both cases they're actually far less interesting, clever, or charismatic than they would want you to believe.

1

u/Good_Restaurant15 11h ago

i.e. it's not an act, they're both tedious bores.

Trump is absolutely acting it up for his followers... wtf are you on?!?!?

Did you also think George W. Bush was serious with his goofy as fck poor country boy act? No that was Also an act, his base is stupid as fuck, yes Trump's act is working and is exactly what his base needs to hear. His nonsense word salads give his base everything they need to hear whatever they want to hear and interpret whatever they want however they want. That's how they defend his nonsense.

15

u/duxnrunz 20h ago

Yes, just like a lot of MAGAs

13

u/DisastrousAcshin 19h ago

It's wild that older magas are the same people that were aggressively anti Russian through the 80s and 90s

1

u/Effex 18h ago

Not all that wild. Back then, it was Reagan and his Reaganomics that was the boogeyman for the same types of people. Their parroted talking points weren't even all that different; hating on poor people even though much of MAGA is poor, immigrants, and progressive policies.

3

u/cisned 19h ago

It’s more like he didn’t think Ukraine could do it because of the lack of long range missiles

1

u/pongjinn 20h ago

It's the Vyacheslav Molotov School of Public Communication

1

u/fauxregard 19h ago

Yeah, it seems like the natural cycle is the tyrant knows they're full of shit and lying at first, but once they repeat it long enough they start to believe their own bullshit.

1

u/Born-Painting7341 18h ago

Just like here in the states, there a team of monkeys in a think tank scripting out his speeches..

1

u/ChapterThr33 18h ago

Sounds pretty familiar eh? Corruption drives all and a cult of personality leader at the head of it. Hmmm....

1

u/Fluffy-Intern-1200 18h ago

Like Trumpy?

1

u/Space_Sweetness 18h ago

Impossible to know if the countrymen believe him or not. It’s risky to say they don’t believe a word he says and that he is a criminal who terrorises his own population

1

u/Regular-Cheetah-8095 18h ago

He believes enough of Russia will believe what he says, which is the only thing that’s important to him and more powerful than the truth. Enough of Russia will believe whatever anyone says that enables them to believe in Russia, which is all that’s important to them and makes them feel more powerful than the truth.

There are parallels to this phenomenon elsewhere.

1

u/TacoTaconoMi 18h ago

I've read accounts from Russians that it's not even to get the population to believe it. It's a power move that even though everyone knows your lying they have to go along with it

1

u/eazycheezy123 18h ago

Seems familiar

1

u/GidsWy 18h ago

And get people in other countries to repeat it enough to cause issues there. Issues elsewhere prevent support for their enemies. US playbook.

1

u/A_FVCKING_UNICORN 18h ago

Our government wishes they could do what Putin does. Whatever he says isn't true, it's the only acceptable narrative and any diversion from that ends in turmoil

1

u/tank1952 18h ago

A tactic his stooge here in the United States is attempting to foist on us. 

1

u/lorraineg57 18h ago

Yes, How DOES Trump do that?

1

u/jadedragon4486 17h ago

There's increasing suspicion that he is being fed propaganda by his closer circle. Apparently it seems they're afraid of his reaction to the truth so they edit tv and reports to make him think they're doing better than they are. So his decisions are being made with innacurate information. Not that he is in any way absolved of his actions by this

John Ratcliffe visited Russia the other day, apparently to try and determine what putin thinks is the situation and maybe open his eyes to the reality, hoping for increased chance of negotiations to end the war. Although it is reported that he didn't meet with putin, only the same yes men that Ratcliffes visit was attempting to override

1

u/HughJorgens 17h ago

He is KGB. This is all standard Cold War KGB tactics. He doesn't realize that it's not the 80s anymore and the world has changed.

1

u/FloridaMan_69 15h ago

I forget exactly who it was that said it, but there was an analysis I once read about Russian politics that said blatant lying was done as a demonstration of power; Once someone is sufficiently powerful they know that people can no longer challenge them, so they just lie to communicate that they know their power, and they know the listener has a lack of power.

29

u/xeoron 21h ago

Just like many in power that are pro corruption 

16

u/CoffeeDrinkerMao 20h ago

Nah Russia is just spread too thing to protect their oil refineries. They just don’t want to admit it.

9

u/Fractoos 20h ago

Not really. He just thought he could do it and they wouldn't retaliate because he thought the US wouldn't let them, which was true originally. Major miscalculation.

1

u/Longjumping_Tour_613 17h ago

Major Miscalculation. Is that one of Trump's new appointees for the armed forces? Along with General Malaise...

8

u/weededorpheus32 21h ago

I would point and laugh if this were a civil matter

9

u/HeavenlyChickenWings 19h ago

He knows what he is saying

"They attacked civilian structures everyone! See?! They are the bad guys!"

5

u/thenwhat 19h ago

No, he knows very well that he's lying. He's always lying.

1

u/Vivitrolsrevenge 18h ago

are we talking about Russia or the US?

2

u/thenwhat 18h ago

Well, Trump and Putin are both two shameless liars. But here I'm referring to Putin.

5

u/Mark_Logan 20h ago

Putin is a gold medalist in cognitive gymnastics.

Though the IOC did disqualify most of the Russian contenders during the widespread doping scandal revealed after the 2014 Sochi Olympics.

1

u/LantaExile 18h ago

His KGB background does seem to have given him a certain something in the calling black white game.

1

u/Uxmeister 18h ago

Yes, that’s exactly the sort of thing the KGB trained certain cohorts of its staff to do. With years if not decades of that sort of training, a gold medal doth loom.

Shortly after the East German Socialist Unity Party regime fell—wall, barbed wire, booby traps and watchtowers along with it—an understandably irate crowd of Dresdeners paid a visit to the local Stasi (state security, ‘sword and shield of the Party’) branch, where officers were hastily attempting to shred and burn evidence.

A perfectly blank-faced, unremarkable looking and soft-spoken man “explained“ to the most determined of the crowd in slightly-Russian-accented but fluent German that it might be dangerous to enter the building at this point due to fires. Of course, as a mere translation contractor he did not know any details but Police and Fire Brigade were on their way to “handle the situation”. A few believed him but most pounced on the building and secured its contents.

Translator… my eye. Putin held a major’s rank in the Stasi. Something about ‘plausible deniability’ was decades in the making.

6

u/FromImgurToReddit 21h ago

More for internal consumption and vatniks outside.

2

u/Contemplatetheveiled 18h ago

Not at all. They know exactly what they're doing and exactly who their audience is.

2

u/MPCartwright 19h ago

Russia has invaded a lot of countries and done a lot of heinous shit in the last 200 years. I wish I could like them, but at this point I really can’t and don’t have much hope for the future.

But

I do think we should be treating them like an abused child with PTSD. they have been invaded many times in the last 100 years. Faced existential war with Germany.

I think there are a lot of rational reasons why they behave irrationally, and will continue to do so. Not an excuse, it’s just… sadly unsurprising.

1

u/flavouredpopcorn 18h ago

Exactly, rarely do leaders go to war because theyre pure evil. Russias legitimacy is derived by protecting its people from the threat that is westward expansion. Its often referred to as the Thucydides Trap. It is a prominent international relations theory stating that when a rising power threatens to displace an established ruling power, the resulting structural anxiety makes military conflict exceptionally likely, if not inevitable.

It was either invade Ukraine and secure a buffer living up to its status as a bastion for its people, or erode internally.

1

u/MPCartwright 18h ago

I don’t think those were the only two options, but I understand if they believe those were the only two options.

Otherwise agree. Opportunity was missed to deepen western ties in a mutually beneficial way, when Russia considered and later declined to join NATO because of the perceived loss of sovereignty.

→ More replies (1)

1

u/KillBatman1921 20h ago

I have some Hor-newz fo you!

Unfortunately that is far too common int the real world. Bullies always try to cry they are the real victim

1

u/Vann_Accessible 19h ago

Classic bully mentality.

1

u/B3ck3t3 19h ago

And the basis for the rebirth of America under Trumpler

1

u/jantwel 19h ago

Not him, but the ones who believe his words

1

u/OptimisticSkeleton 19h ago

Or a study and how former intelligence operatives lie.

1

u/LynxAdonis 19h ago

With national narcissism observable in large swathes of the population too.

Though, with a lot of it coming from older individuals undoubtedly growing up during the days of the soviet union, one does have to wonder if it's just lingering effects of growing up around unrelenting propaganda.

The younger generations have no excuse and need their heads examined for the root of their superiority complex.

Edit: spelling

1

u/Spoits 19h ago

Countries have been acting like Karens to each other for most of civilized history. It's nothing new unfortunately.

1

u/whoneedskollege 18h ago

He literally hit hospitals in the first months of the war and hasn't let up.

1

u/MrRipley15 18h ago

Ray Cohns/Trumps playbook; admit nothing, deny everything, attack attack attack. (If you want to know how Donald Trump ticks watch the movie ‘The Apprentice’). Everything is about manipulating public perception for the easily misled. Russia invented modern propaganda techniques and Trump perfected it.

1

u/AceofKnaves44 18h ago

This is up there with Trump wondering why Iranians won’t help the U.S. in his war. “Why won’t you help me fight you? All we’ve done is kill some of you and kill children when we bombed a school! NOT THAT WE NEED YOUR HELP!”

1

u/NoFace718 18h ago

maga wants a word

1

u/Dysc 18h ago

Putin's Russia is a pure case study in cognitive dissonance newspeak.

1

u/String-Tree 18h ago

Russia has always been this way. Putin didn't invent Russian hypocrisy, he's merely the current symbol of it.

1

u/Roses_Got_Thorns 18h ago

Basically how bullies think when their victim starts hitting back. And Ukraine hits hard

1

u/old_ass_ninja_turtle 18h ago

I live in the US. We have lots of cognitive dissonance here also.

1

u/Anxious_Nebula5926 18h ago

Russia’s biggest trick was to market themselves as tough guys, when in reality they’re pathetic drunks with the world’s biggest victim complex.

1

u/you2234 18h ago

Wait till you hear about what is going on in the US!!

1

u/michaelmcmikey 18h ago

Russia has always been a cry-bully. They do a shitty thing and then act like the victims when a shitty thing is done back to them.

1

u/andthrewaway1 18h ago

more like a case study in zero sum theory

1

u/Bmandk 18h ago

It's propaganda, not actually what he believes.

1

u/average_texas_guy 18h ago

Hi, I live in America. I too am familiar with a leader like this.

1

u/expera 18h ago

I think you mean propaganda

1

u/OmgHowww 18h ago

True but so is Bidens/Trumps USA.

1

u/jonnyredshorts 18h ago

He’s only saying this for Russian ears. Russians are mostly unaware that they are bombing Ukrainian civilians and children.

1

u/Global_Curve1373 18h ago

He is KGB. They studied and perfected brain washing.

1

u/yutao123 17h ago edited 17h ago

I feel like cognitive dissonance doesn't really apply when it's self interest

Like when someone refuses to donate to charity even though it'd save starving people. If you asked him whether saving those people is good ofc he'd say yes, but he might still refuse to donate because it's not convenient for him to give up money at the moment. it not cognitive dissonance for him not to give money even if fully believes his money will do more good for others and only minorly inconvenience him.

Otherwise we'd all have cognitive dissonance for not being full time activists. Because we all know we could spend a lot more time doing good, we'd just rather not because there's things in our own lives we care about more even if it's not truly more important than social causes.

1

u/gedbybee 17h ago

It’s propaganda for their people. It’s how you get your country to buy into the shortages they’re facing.

Putin’s whole thing is that he’s the best strongman for the job because that’s how power has worked in Russia for centuries. That’s why they’re ok with him being in power for so long. It was Stalin before and the czar before that. Everything has been increases in standards of living from everyone being a serf or whatever 300 years ago. And I’m certain they teach that.

So the real deal is that it’s amazing he actually came out and said this at all.

He didn’t have to say anything.

I think this shows how weak his hand is with his people and that he’s afraid of a rebellion.

Ukraine may not be winning tons of ground, but if they can keep putting the pressure on him at home then maybe they’ll win unconventionally. Cuz they were never going to win a manpower war. They’re trying to make this russias Vietnam but in this case they can actually strike Moscow.

1

u/Dramatic_Watch4330 17h ago

"...in the bald-faced hypocrisy of naked violence."

He just wants his way at any cost and in his calculus, everything anyone else does that doesn't fit his wants is wrong. Everything he wants is right. It's the logic of atrocity.

1

u/brickout 17h ago

No, it's a psyop.

1

u/LittlePrairieMouse 16h ago

Trump aspires to be just like him

1

u/Helpful-Fan-5465 16h ago

I was trying to think of something to type that vents my disgust. But this is exactly it. Spot on.

1

u/dragonbornsqrl 15h ago

Just like Drump’s America

1

u/More_Passenger3988 15h ago

Well he's compared himself to Peter the Great. Anyone who gleefully compares themselves to a guy who tortured and killed his own son and put his friend's head in a jar just for funZies has to be a sociopath. Full stop.

1

u/linux_transgirl 15h ago

I wouldn't be surprised if he didnt know they were targeting civilian infrastructure. He's very paranoid, and I wouldn't be surprised if he's only getting told what wouldn't sound bad

1

u/ReturnToCinder 14h ago

It’s not really cognitive dissonance, he doesn’t genuinely believe the refineries should be off limits, he’s simply saving face by saying the reason they couldn’t protect them is because they weren’t really trying in the first place. Better to paint Ukraine as using dirty underhanded tactics than admit incompetence.

1

u/skeptical-speculator 14h ago

Putin doesn't believe any of this. It is standard DARVO technique.

1

u/DanielKeeneGA15 11h ago

Just look at MAGA - no difference in cognitive dissonance. It’s all depressing.

1

u/kenny2812 9h ago

Nah he's a psychopath that calculates everything he says very precisely. He's smart and manipulative and knows stupid people will believe him, there's no cognitive dissonance to be found.

1

u/Mornar 4h ago

It's not cognitive dissonance, it's just bullshitting. Those who are receptive to believing Russia is in any way, shape or form in the right here will just parrot the soundbite. That's all this is about.

1

u/InRatioVeritas 19h ago

No cognitive dissonance at all here. It's just pure evil.

→ More replies (9)