[On3] BREAKING: The SEC has filed a lawsuit against LSU and head football coach Lane Kiffin, @PeteNakos reports.

[u/Fonzie5]

https://x.com/on3/status/2095555292859646137?s=46&t=FavtrbPsHpJY8Odvh2TYUA

[u/BoldElDavo]

In its complaint, the SEC requests the court “enter a preliminary and permanent injunction prohibiting Defendants from violating the Conference’s First Amendment rights by compelling the Conference to associate with conduct that is contrary to the Conference’s purpose and mission.”

Frankly I don't know how this is different from the lawsuit already taking place.

[u/surreptitioussloth → u/BoldElDavo]

It’s different because it doesn’t even make sense as a lawsuit

What relief are they really asking for against lsu/kiffin? They aren’t bringing the lawsuit and do not have the power to stop it

If the state court finds the ncaa/sec rules are unlawful, whatever this lawsuit is trying to do wouldn’t get in the way of that

I’ve pursued novel legal theories, but this is just not based on legal reality as far as I can tell

[u/BoldElDavo → u/surreptitioussloth]

It could make sense as a lawsuit. They're saying the conference has a purpose and mission, and LSU (a state entity) is compelling them to associate with conduct contrary to it.

I guess the mission is amateur athletics and the conduct contrary is hiring professional athletes, in a nutshell. The relief would be barring LSU/Kiffin from hiring professional athletes.

I don't buy it even a little bit as an argument, but if they can somehow win on the NCAA/SEC rule being speech protected by the Constitution, that would defeat the other lawsuit.

[u/surreptitioussloth → u/BoldElDavo]

Yeah, that’s the best argument they can make but when the actual harm is coming from lawsuits from players, claiming that their success there is state retaliation is a huge stretch

[u/BoldElDavo → u/surreptitioussloth]

Right, but the players aren't state actors. LSU and its employees are.

[u/surreptitioussloth → u/BoldElDavo]

But assuming the SEC gets an injunction against LSU for, what, continuing to encourage players to file lawsuits?

That still leaves them facing potential orders requiring them to let the players play and not punish the schools rostering them

It’s just weird

[u/BoldElDavo → u/surreptitioussloth]

The injunction would be stopping LSU from rostering the players, surely.

[u/DuvalHeart → u/BoldElDavo]

Even if we leave out the amateur athletics portion an organization has the right to determine who can be a member and to apply its own rules (unless said membership requirements and rules run afoul of anti-discrimination laws).

[u/SituationSoap → u/DuvalHeart]

has the right to determine who can be a member and to apply its own rules

This is true insofar as those rules don't violate the law. But the bigger thing here is...even if we accept this as a basis for the argument, that doesn't warrant a lawsuit. If the argument is "you keep bringing in people we don't want to associate with," then the response is "OK, kick them out" not "Sue them in Federal court to do...something about it"

[u/DuvalHeart → u/SituationSoap]

I think their argument is that LSU is specifically searching for players to justify a lawsuit to force the issue in a way that benefits themself rather than the players.

[u/SituationSoap → u/DuvalHeart]

That's not relevant to what I wrote, though.

[u/BoldElDavo → u/DuvalHeart]

The NCAA has been arguing that unsuccessfully for years.

Organizations do not have the right to act monopolistically in restricting a labor market. These players are getting paid now, so they are a labor market.

[u/DuvalHeart → u/BoldElDavo]

The NCAA is violating anti-trust provisions because it is an organization of competitors (the leagues) acting in collusion.

[u/BoldElDavo → u/DuvalHeart]

Quick, now tell me the conference is not an organization of competitors (the schools).

And tell me those schools aren't members of the NCAA.

[u/DuvalHeart → u/BoldElDavo]

While the universities are competitors in an athletic sense, they are not competitors in the marketplace since they don't determine the pay of the players.

[u/JX_JR → u/DuvalHeart]

What are you talking about? The universities 100% determine the pay of the players and compete for their services. Players are signing revenue sharing agreements directly with the university.

[u/Ion_bound → u/surreptitioussloth]

They're saying that they want to kick LSU out of the SEC, sounds like, and that they have the constitutional right to do so. Not sure why this would stop LSU from playing on Sunday but I can see wanting to essentially get a declaratory judgment/anti-suit injunction in a non-LA court before trying to boot LSU.

[u/SituationSoap → u/Ion_bound]

They're saying that they want to kick LSU out of the SEC, sounds like, and that they have the constitutional right to do so.

That argument doesn't require a lawsuit, though?

[u/Ion_bound → u/SituationSoap]

No, but LSU will sue if they do that to try to stay in. So by filing a lawsuit first in the Northern District of Alabama asking permission to kick LSU out, instead of letting LSU file in Louisiana asking to be let back in, they get to pick a battlefield with a less biased (and/or biased in their favor) judge.

It's genuinely good legal strategy, clearly the SEC has better lawyers than the NCAA.

[u/SituationSoap → u/Ion_bound]

No, but LSU will sue if they do that to try to stay in.

I mean that's just table stakes.

So by filing a lawsuit first in the Northern District of Alabama asking permission to kick LSU out

But that is not what they're seeking in this lawsuit?

It's genuinely good legal strategy

It is?

[u/Ion_bound → u/SituationSoap]

But that is not what they're seeking in this lawsuit?

According to One3, they want the Court to “enter a preliminary and permanent injunction prohibiting Defendants from violating the Conference’s First Amendment rights by compelling the Conference to associate with conduct that is contrary to the Conference’s purpose and mission.” That's legalese for 'Prevent them from saying we can't kick them out for breaking the rules'.

It is?

Oh yeah. Forum selection is huge and can be outcome determinative, not just in terms of judge-shopping (though that is a factor) but also in terms of choice of law. And Louisiana Civil Law is a byzantine nightmare unless you want to law school at LSU or Tulane because it's based on the Napoleonic Code instead of Anglo-American law.

[u/SituationSoap → u/Ion_bound]

That's legalese for 'Prevent them from saying we can't kick them out for breaking the rules'.

I'm not a lawyer, but this seems explicitly wrong. As far as I can tell, literally nobody has said that the SEC can't kick LSU out for breaking the rules except the courts, which makes sense because the courts routinely take a very poor view of litigants punishing someone for doing something the courts say is legal.

Forum selection is huge and can be outcome determinative, not just in terms of judge-shopping (though that is a factor) but also in terms of choice of law

OK, but the rulings against the NCAA and SEC have come from across the country, which suggests that the type of law we're dealing with at this point isn't specific to Louisiana.

But more specifically, I wasn't talking about forum shopping. I'm talking about the idea that filing what appears to be a batshit lawsuit against the university and Lane Kiffin for engaging in a conspiracy to do something that isn't illegal is a brilliant legal strategy.

[u/Cogitoergosumus → u/BoldElDavo]

My guess is its meant to draw attention and put crosshairs on the group responsible for the madness and nothing more.

[u/Mortonsbrand → u/BoldElDavo]

That reads like the conference plans to either heavily sanction, or possibly expel LSU over this.

Or am I crazy?

[u/justinbajko → u/Mortonsbrand]

To me it reads like the conference is begging a court and/or the legislature to solve this problem for it so it doesn’t have to show the world it isn’t willing to expel LSU and unmask that there are virtually no consequences for doing anything as long as money continues rolling in.

[u/Mortonsbrand → u/justinbajko]

I guess we will find out 🤷‍♂️

[u/FSUfan35 → u/justinbajko]

I'm a bit confused, and you sound like one of the most rational people on this thread so, didn't the Sec already say they would comply with the court and allow nfl players to play if they were ruled eligible by the court?

[u/justinbajko → u/FSUfan35]

I am absolutely not a lawyer. But…

I believe the SEC said they would comply with the court’s TRO, meaning they will not enforce the penalties in the rule they created until there is a ruling, but intend to argue the validity of their rule (which is this lawsuit). So with this lawsuit the SEC is asking a judge to rule their their new rule that prohibits NFL players from playing (and allows the SEC to punish schools that play them) is legal and enforceable. But until a judge rules they are complying with the TRO that says “you can’t enforce this until a judge rules.”

Either way if they “lose” they have no choice but to comply with the court. The issue is no one has won or lost yet — we just have TROs awaiting lawsuits to be heard and judges to rule.

I think.

[u/FSUfan35 → u/justinbajko]

OK that makes about as much sense as it can, and was my understanding of the timeline as well. I guess my question would just be why do they need to sue LSU now, when LSU hasn't even technically broken their rule

[u/justinbajko → u/FSUfan35]

A fair question and I honestly don’t know. I think realistically they’re doing it to get their day in court and hopefully have a judge agree that their rule is valid and enforceable, and a lawsuit is how you do that. But a lawyer could more confidently answer the “why now” question than my dumbass guessing. 😂

[u/beaver_of_fire → u/justinbajko]

I think that rule will be found to be unenforceable. It's a retaliatory rule instituted to work around court rulings. I'd hope no place in this country could do that. That's terrible for everyone.

They could vote to expel LSU at anytime. I don't think they need any reason just the votes. The thing is they won't. The conferences don't have some magic power that the NCAA doesn't or can't do. Also why do fans want to even save this current garbage system? Rip off the bandaid and let's get to nuking this entirely into the sun and get back to regional divisions, and something thats more cfb than its been the last 20 years.

[u/BoldElDavo → u/Mortonsbrand]

I don't think this specifically reads that way, but it's certainly reasonable to assume they want to punish LSU.

Basically there's already the TRO saying the NCAA and the conferences can't do anything to restrict these specific players. The SEC is now asking the courts to restrict these players because the conference can't. I'm not sure if the requested injunction would actually allow the conference to punish LSU.

[u/Mortonsbrand → u/BoldElDavo]

It’s the part about compelling association that made my eyebrows twitch.

[u/CheaterSaysWhat → u/BoldElDavo]

How does a conference have first amendment rights