[On3] BREAKING: The SEC has filed a lawsuit against LSU and head football coach Lane Kiffin, @PeteNakos reports.

[u/Fonzie5]

https://x.com/on3/status/2095555292859646137?s=46&t=FavtrbPsHpJY8Odvh2TYUA

[u/JustHereForCatss]

I haven't seen this conference or subreddit so United in my lifetime. All my homies hate Lane

[u/Tarmacked → u/JustHereForCatss]

He really took years of goodwill from Alabama/FAU/Ole Miss and torched it in a few months

[u/BobbysSmile → u/Tarmacked]

Lane: "get your popcorn ready"
Also Lane: is down 28-0 at the half

[u/amayain → u/BobbysSmile]

One of my favorite Lane moments, especially when Big Al was eating the giant popcorn at the half

[u/Worried-Turn-6831 → u/amayain]

Glorious

[u/FearlessAttempt → u/amayain]

Wearing the popcorn actually. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FAuqQICXMAEjaf2.jpg

[u/mechnick2 → u/BobbysSmile]

I’m pretty sure at this point, Lane Kiffin is an alias for Joey Freshwater

[u/tritonice → u/Tarmacked]

He had it MADE in Oxford, as much as it pains me to say that. He could have earned $10 million+ for as long as he wanted. 9-10 wins and CFP appearances most years gets you a statue in the Grove.

Something seriously wrong happened last year in his brain, or maybe he was just pulling the longest con since Saban canned him.

Now, he has achieved super villain status and has a high chance of TARMAC pt. 2 if he doesn't win pretty much instantly.

Can't wait to see the mustard fly in a couple of weeks.

[u/Baiji519 → u/tritonice]

I’ve never seen someone who kept failing upward, then torched all that unearned good will to the ground.

Que Kiffin entering some sort of rehab/treatment center by November/December.

[u/eetsumkaus → u/Baiji519]

Those are pretty much the norm though. These people don't know how good they have it until it's too late. They have to be smart and self-aware enough to know they didn't get there on their own merits.

[u/Sargentrock → u/eetsumkaus]

There's something to be said about the schools that keep getting sucked into this somehow. Dude sold his soul and got his money's worth I guess.

[u/ReverendRodneyKingJr → u/Baiji519]

Can you please explain how going from USC HC to Alabama offensive coordinator was failing upward? And how he failed as the Alabama OC? And how he failed as the Ole Miss HC?

[u/Baiji519 → u/ReverendRodneyKingJr]

If Lane wasn’t a nepo baby, no one would put up with his shenanigans.

I never said he was a poor coach. His last name and charm bought him a lot of grace with glazed over his garbage behaviors.

[u/TenMovesAhead → u/Baiji519]

I think that was right for a long time, through his flame out at USC probably. I disagree post-Bama tho. IMO, his success at Ole Miss was real and his. He did not get that job because he was Monte Kiffin’s son. Let’s not pretend he wasn’t tied to basically everything P4 head coach vacancy from 2018 until he went to ole miss

[u/ReverendRodneyKingJr → u/Baiji519]

You didn’t answer any of my 3 questions. You said he failed upwards. Please explain how he’s done that in the last decade of his life

[u/DB_Seedy13 → u/ReverendRodneyKingJr]

He’s a really good coach. Hardly failing upwards. He’s also just a prick

[u/TenMovesAhead → u/ReverendRodneyKingJr]

Don’t know why you’re getting downvoted. Lane Kiffin’s problems post-Bama haven’t really been about his coaching ability, they’ve been about basically everything else. He’s a solid coach and potentially elite program builder in 2026. But he’s also the GOAT program destroyer, so…..

[u/Huellio → u/tritonice]

I really thought he would stay. Dude was royalty there and clearly had the talent and support to go all the way, a long leash, and a guaranteed bag.

[u/XAfricaSaltX → u/tritonice]

He’s a weird ass dude, he had Ole Miss set to run the SEC for the foreseeable future along with Georgia and Texas and instead he just went to a school that last made the CFP when they had Burrow/Chase/Jefferson/Stingley and 400 other NFL players.

[u/mejok → u/tritonice]

Something seriously wrong happened last year in his brain

I'm not sure. Don't get me wrong....I think Lane is a douche but he probably just genuinely thought he had a better shot at getting the best recruits and winning a natty at LSU....and he clearly doesn't mind burning the fuck out of bridges to get what he wants.

[u/Agent847 → u/tritonice]

He did have it good in Oxford. But there’s very little probability of building a dynasty at Ole Miss. The rebels had a shot at the title last year, but Alabama in the Saban years they will never be. And Kiffin knew that. And he also knew that LSU is one of a single handful of schools in the country with the unique combination of attributes where a good recruiter / good X’s & O’s coach can do that. Orgeron and Les Miles won natties in BR. Had Saban stayed rather than jumping to the NFL, he would’ve been just as successful as he ended up being at Bama.

Egos like Kiffin want the biggest prize. He could be married to a solid 8 who’s ride or die loyal, a whiz in the kitchen and even better in bed. But if he has a chance to fuck a 10, he’ll cheat.

[u/trollfessor → u/tritonice]

Yeah, but he wants to win championships. That will happen at LSU, and not at OM.

[u/gasmask11000 → u/Tarmacked]

Unrelated but does anyone want a Lane Kiffin bobblehead? I got it back when I got a COVID test in 2020

[u/Dangerous_Golf_7417 → u/gasmask11000]

No but someone in Oxford could make bank with a Lane Kiffin pinata

[u/amayain → u/Dangerous_Golf_7417]

I was at a bar that destroyed a Lane pinata in Knoxville right after he left, lol (Cotton Eyed Joes, iykyk)

[u/Dangerous_Golf_7417 → u/amayain]

Where did you come from where did you go describes a typical reaction to Lane pretty well 

[u/amayain → u/Dangerous_Golf_7417]

Absolutely. CEJ's is a trainwreck of a bar in Knoxville though. Imagine a Chuckie Cheese for drunkin rednecks. Line dancing, pool, darts, a wall of deer hunter video games, that weird shuffleboard game, a section dedicated to roping cattle, several mechanical bulls, dollar pitchers, dollar shots, a man on a horse that greets you as you enter, and the DJ booth is in the front half of a semi truck. It's quite the experience, especially for a kid from Wisconsin.

[u/DarthSkier → u/amayain]

Sounds like an ideal spot for a bender

[u/amayain → u/DarthSkier]

I don't remember a ton of great nights there

[u/guy_incognito23 → u/amayain]

That's because you're not a robot (/j)

[u/Mike_with_Wings → u/amayain]

If they’re playing Drive by Truckers all night, count me the fuck in.

[u/amayain → u/Mike_with_Wings]

Best we can offer is some Toby Keith and Alan Jackson

[u/Mike_with_Wings → u/amayain]

And for that reason, I’m out

(Early Alan Jackson is decent)

[u/Dangerous_Golf_7417 → u/amayain]

Sounds a lot like Red Rock Saloon in Madison if we're talking Wisconsin 

[u/Baiji519 → u/Dangerous_Golf_7417]

Tennessee says hold my beer.

[u/Mike_with_Wings → u/Dangerous_Golf_7417]

Or Lane Kiffin voodoo dolls

[u/BornFireFist → u/gasmask11000]

Yep. Would be perfect with my flair

[u/Secret_Hyena9680 → u/gasmask11000]

Back when he left the Vols, my bank would let you throw three darts at a pic of Lane if you opened a new account.

[u/Rodney_Jefferson → u/gasmask11000]

There’s gonna be about 10,000 in Oxford on the 19th. On the visitors side.

[u/gasmask11000 → u/Rodney_Jefferson]

Real question, do other schools do bobble heads for coaches? We don’t do it for every coach

[u/OnePercentVisible → u/gasmask11000]

For football VT had one for Beamer, they gave them out when they put up his statue at Lane Stadium. Basketball had a small run of Buzz ones.

Edit: those were a model of the statue, the bobble heads were from a minor league team who had a VT night.

[u/Expensive_Team_5072 → u/OnePercentVisible]

Nick Saban's would have been actual size.

[u/shiftysquid → u/gasmask11000]

I still have one from when he was the Vols coach.

[u/squirtwv69 → u/gasmask11000]

I wish I could find mine. I want to paint his shirt and visor purple and write HEAUX on his shirt

[u/gasmask11000 → u/squirtwv69]

Dude I was in a used clothing store in a town in Colorado like 3 weeks ago (Idaho Springs) and saw a Kiffin “HEAUX” shirt lmfao. I was confused but loved it

[u/justaride80 → u/gasmask11000]

Does it come with a bottle of mustard? I’ll take it just for the mustard

[u/kroxti → u/gasmask11000]

No but do you have the Johnny sins souvenir cup from heroes appreciation?

[u/gasmask11000 → u/kroxti]

Unfortunately I don’t think they ever actually gave those out and I didn’t have contacts in the athletics department at that point lol

[u/Epabst → u/gasmask11000]

I’ll take it!

[u/smellmyfingerplz → u/gasmask11000]

Was it a rectal test?

[u/gasmask11000 → u/smellmyfingerplz]

Felt like they shoved it far enough up my nose to touch my brain tbh

[u/TwoTalentedBastidz → u/gasmask11000]

I’ll take it

[u/jimmybilly100 → u/gasmask11000]

Attached some of those model rocket motors to it and blast off to the Sun!

[u/Disastrous-Duty-8020 → u/gasmask11000]

I would like it

[u/UhIdontcareforAuburn → u/Tarmacked]

To start last season I would say he was one of the more liked coaches in CFB. He overcame some of his immaturity and built a decent program while maintaining some of the humor he always had. And like you said, in like 4 months he set it all on fire.

[u/one-hour-photo → u/Tarmacked]

for the record I stayed hatin that asshole

[u/confusedMan1987 → u/Tarmacked]

I definitely was on the “he is wacky but we love that” train . Like I knew he as a jack wagon but at least he had personality and wasn’t straight answers all the time. But yeah , that’s long gone

[u/thesluggard12 → u/Tarmacked]

That's ridiculous. It didn't even take him a full month to torch it.

[u/sonheungwin → u/Tarmacked]

Couldn't complete the redemption arc because he only knows chaos.

[u/Mexikinda → u/Tarmacked]

Are you saying Lane had goodwill? Or Alabama / FAU / Ole Miss had good will, and that he torched it?

Lane hasn't had goodwill ... ever? Maybe his mother loved him? I'm not even sure of that.

[u/Baiji519 → u/Mexikinda]

Lane can be charming and washes up nice. That glazes over all his maladjustive behaviors.

Too back he has no one in his life that that can shake his shoulders and scream, DUDE WTF?!”

[u/tider06 → u/Tarmacked]

TBF, he burned a lot of Bama fans when he checked out in the playoffs after he took the FAU job.

I will always believe we win another ring that year if he hadn't clocked out.

[u/TheoDonaldKerabatsos → u/Tarmacked]

When he could exceed expectations year after year at programs like FAU and Ole Miss, all the lame shit he can’t help himself but to do is just cute and funny. Doesn’t work like that when the heater is over your head at a program with the expectations of LSU. You better win, win big, and win fast or else you’re toast. 

Lane is an incredibly gifted football coach who has the ability to be one of the best of his generation, he was one of the youngest NFL head coaches ever for a reason. He’s always had an elite football mind, and he’s also always been a petty unserious asshole who couldn’t stop biting the hand that fed him. The only thing that changed was the environment. That’s why I have held the opinion that he would have been more successful long-term staying at Ole Miss than going to LSU, even though for nearly every other coach the opposite would be true. Even if he is successful at LSU initially, it wont make things better. He soured Bama boosters and Saban on him enough to dismiss him while we were literally in the middle of prepping for a national championship.

I mean, LSU fired a coach that won a national title two seasons prior, and not without reason. What happens if Lane goes 9-3 and starts retweeting TikToks of sorority girls and suing his own conference over third stringers? I can’t say I would be suprised if Lane won a national title at LAU at some point, but I am absolutely certain that whenever his tenure ends, it will end incredibly unceremoniously and probobly leave LSU in as much disarray as it was in when he was hired. 

[u/Obi7kenobi → u/Tarmacked]

Over a tight end.

[u/Careless_General8010 → u/Obi7kenobi]

Not the first guy to go crazy for that

[u/FylntCoal → u/Tarmacked]

kiffin been kiffin since he was a raider. thanks kiffin for pushing things to point that you've pissed off everyone. you made us forget about texas tech!

[u/KaleidoscopeSlight35 → u/Tarmacked]

What’s crazy is his goodwill from Alabama never even existed at Alabama. There’s a few reasons he was never seriously considered when Saban stepped down

[u/PeteDontCare → u/Tarmacked]

He was bound to, it was just a matter of time. Look how quickly he jumped ship from Ole Miss for something better. And they knew what a sleeze bag he was and didn't even trust him, even sweeping their place for bugs when he left 😂

[u/kerph32 → u/Tarmacked]

Ya just hate to see it

[u/Worth_Impression_493 → u/Tarmacked]

lies

[u/kosmonavt-alyosha → u/Tarmacked]

Who would have ever seen it coming!!??

[u/improbablydrinking → u/Tarmacked]

Fuck Lane Kiffin frfr

[u/SUBLIMEskillz → u/Tarmacked]

Is this satire? What goodwill?

[u/Tarmacked → u/SUBLIMEskillz]

To be blunt, he basically started over and worked himself up the ladder after an early burnout. OC -> FAU -> Then he stuck with Ole Miss for six years, which isn’t a big money SEC program, and elevated them a ton.

Lane still did some meme schtick on twitter, but for a good chunk of people he effectively carved himself away from the Tennessee incident and had rebuilt his brand.

Two years ago we were applauding him for turning down Auburn. Even if he had left for LSU this year anyway, doing it in a non-antagonistic manner would have been accepted as natural progression: instead he torched the place on the way out and is now doing this professional BS.

[u/maoterracottasoldier → u/JustHereForCatss]

He got an undeserved redemption arc that was fabricated by the media. I’m so happy to see it come crashing down immediately. He’s just a bad person

[u/veganmathlete → u/maoterracottasoldier]

He basically rented a dog? Cosplayed being a dog owner? Who does that?

[u/NottaBigDyl → u/veganmathlete]

Politicians have definitely done this lol

[u/retnuh730 → u/veganmathlete]

Kirk Herbstreit

[u/Gingeronimoooo → u/retnuh730]

Nah Kirk Herbstreit sucks but he really loved the dog

[u/retnuh730 → u/veganmathlete]

Kirk Herbstreit

[u/SmarterThanMyBoss → u/maoterracottasoldier]

So true. I HATED him like 20 years ago. Before it was cool (or at least before I was on reddit and discovered it was cool). Then over his time at FAU and, mostly Ole Miss, I was tricked into thinking he had matured into an OK dude who did amusing stuff sometimes.

But nope, he's the same entitled asshat he always has been.

I am so upset that I have to root for holier than thou ass Dabo this weekend. Kiffin is a piece of crap for making me do that.

[u/unfunnysexface → u/maoterracottasoldier]

Jolly ole Saint nick keeps delivering

[u/forgotmyoldname90210 → u/unfunnysexface]

Love the story from yesterday that Nick warned others about Joey Freshwater and coeds and yet still kept him on.

[u/EnTyme53 → u/maoterracottasoldier]

Tech fans remember all the bullshit he pulled when we whipped his ass in the Texas Bowl.

[u/luis1972 → u/JustHereForCatss]

Oh, we were all united against Texas Tech too. All it takes to unify good people is to single out the villains.

[u/defroach84 → u/luis1972]

Yeah guys, Tech is no longer the bad guys! Everyone get their pitch fork for the true enemies, LSU!

[u/Pyro1934 → u/defroach84]

Poor Joey... "We'll embrace being the villains"

2 seconds later... Lane Kiffin.

[u/defroach84 → u/Pyro1934]

We are amateur hour compared to Lane.

[u/potterpockets → u/defroach84]

The obvious answer is for Lane to quit in a petulant rage and be hired by Tech. 

[u/luis1972 → u/defroach84]

Don't sell yourself short. Joey McGuire and Cody Campbell are every bit as unlikeable as Lane Kiffin.

[u/defroach84 → u/luis1972]

Cody may be the most mainly due to him actually having some pull in the government.

[u/fakejacki → u/defroach84]

Anyone with enough money to throw at Paxton and Abbott has pull in the government.

[u/oksuzy → u/luis1972]

On some Ozymandias shit.

[u/L_train_4ever → u/luis1972]

And before that it was Nevada.

[u/TheSwitchler → u/JustHereForCatss]

He's such a little piece of shit

[u/Maleficent_Ant_8895 → u/TheSwitchler]

Nah he’s a giant piece of shit

The kind you pound MiraLAX and grab onto the disabled handle bars in the stall and see Jesus midway through your shit

[u/VoarTok → u/Maleficent_Ant_8895]

This is the kind of visualization that only comes from lived experience.

[u/Maleficent_Ant_8895 → u/VoarTok]

2 weeks of MREs at JRTC will change a man

[u/VoarTok → u/Maleficent_Ant_8895]

Lmao, I was in a disaster area once where they were passing out MREs and after two days, I figured I’d rather live on peanut butter from a jar than keep doing that.

[u/Maleficent_Ant_8895 → u/VoarTok]

Some of them are pretty dope. Before I got out they came out with a hash brown breakfast one that if you added bacon cheese was life changing. 

[u/Callsign_Psycopath → u/Maleficent_Ant_8895]

Chili Mac.

[u/Maleficent_Ant_8895 → u/Callsign_Psycopath]

In the MRE HOF. Breakfast, lunch, dinner. Doesn’t matter. It always hits.

[u/Different-Town-657 → u/Maleficent_Ant_8895]

to quote BigDaddyVol. "FUCK LANE KIFFIN!"

[u/justaride80 → u/Different-Town-657]

Big Vol Daddy’s Lane Kiffin meltdown is one of my favorite videos ever

[u/latedep31 → u/justaride80]

I will randomly quote "It's time, oh it's time, motherfucker" now and again. That video is gold lol. Wish he was still here.

[u/justaride80 → u/latedep31]

The Rocky Block one was great too. “It’s gonna come down to LINCOLN!!” Man I respected the hell out of that dude for posting those videos of his heartbreak.

[u/latedep31 → u/justaride80]

Yeah, that one too. Especially right after he says that, Verne says "Daniel Lincoln" and he just goes "Oh my god..." lmao

[u/I-CAN-DO-EAT → u/Different-Town-657]

RIP big fella

[u/Set-Admirable → u/Maleficent_Ant_8895]

Who's taking Miralax and not immediately going home to expel everything they've consumed since seventh grade?

[u/War-eaglern → u/Set-Admirable]

The kind of person who wants to show off their massive miralax poo

[u/Maleficent_Ant_8895 → u/Set-Admirable]

I had MiraLAX for the first time as part of my colonoscopy and I didn’t know I could poop so much 

[u/Gay_Giraffe_1773 → u/Maleficent_Ant_8895]

It's amazing how much poop the body stores. Think you took a good shit this morning? That's only like 20% of what's in your body

[u/jazzzzz → u/Maleficent_Ant_8895]

doc made me take it for a follow-up after a colonoscopy vs taking the industrial strength stuff they gave me for the original procedure and it didn't really do much. they ran so much water up my ass during that follow-up I thought I was going to explode. never been so damn uncomfortable in my life

the little indignities of age

[u/grommit72 → u/Maleficent_Ant_8895]

What a glorious weekend that was eh?

[u/FrenchFreedom888 → u/Maleficent_Ant_8895]

CFB all-time comment

[u/DexterJameson → u/Maleficent_Ant_8895]

Every drop of sweat vacates your body, simultaneously

[u/LiftEatGrappleShoot → u/TheSwitchler]

I prefer "scumbag." To me, it's hilarious how there will be a Lane redemption piece. "He's mature now!" And then he'll turn around and pull some self-absorbed asshole move.

It's remarkable how he's continuously garbage. Hat to him, honestly.

[u/TitanArcher1 → u/TheSwitchler]

Don’t make him bring out his fake dog.

[u/Adventurous_Ad6698 → u/TheSwitchler]

It's sad that such a great offensive football mind is tethered to such a terrible person.

[u/tantalumcaps → u/JustHereForCatss]

I haven't seen this conference or subreddit so United in my lifetime. All my homies hate Lane

To be fair, Laney is going out of his way to leave no bridge unburned and no yoga class unattended. It's not anti-SEC bias for me. It is just really easy to dislike him.

[u/AWolfGaming → u/tantalumcaps]

Al Davis in his senility did a lot of dumb shit with the Raiders. However, him using an overhead projector in a 45 minute presser of why Kiffin was fired was everything you needed to know about Lane. Davis called him a professional liar and a con man. Al Davis was the founder of the Lane Kiffin Hate Club

[u/skippy_smooth → u/AWolfGaming]

I thought Al was crazy for that, but man was he right.

[u/DrMidnight76320 → u/AWolfGaming]

You have mad skills when you allow a senile old man 45 minutes of clarity to illustrate how much of a turd you are.

[u/buckeyebrain1969 → u/AWolfGaming]

He's not only the founder of the Lane Kiffin Hate Club, he's also a member!

[u/sonheungwin → u/AWolfGaming]

The thing is...he could be a great coach if he just got his act together.

[u/DirtyBirdDawg → u/tantalumcaps]

The man really goes out of his way to piss off every single team he has every coached, with the exception of possibly FAU. Worst part is that, as bad as his departure from Ole Miss was his departure from LSU will somehow be even worse.

[u/forgotmyoldname90210 → u/tantalumcaps]

Lane builds bridges just so he can burn them down.

[u/Otherwise-Waltz-3647 → u/tantalumcaps]

And I feel like he thinks it’s cool to play the villain arc. Only idiots fail to realize craving ignominy is the same as craving adulation: in both cases, you live in the imaginations of others.

[u/Unsung_Ironhead → u/JustHereForCatss]

He’s uniting the cfb fanbases like Will Wade united the college basketball fanbases

[u/MurrE1310 → u/Unsung_Ironhead]

We were all united against Texas Tech just a couple months ago

[u/PrizePermission9432 → u/MurrE1310]

Still are

[u/Mike_with_Wings → u/Unsung_Ironhead]

Fuck Will Wade

[u/bk00pi → u/JustHereForCatss]

Dude is bringing B1G and SEC fans together. Really is a beautiful thing.

[u/Careless_General8010 → u/bk00pi]

Is he a plant to create the superconference?

[u/squirtwv69 → u/JustHereForCatss]

Ole Miss should sell a TN section of tickets at our Ole Miss/LSU game and TN should sell an Ole Miss section of tickets at their TN/LSU game.

[u/JustHereForCatss → u/squirtwv69]

We're bonded in blood like two exes who want to key their cheating ex boyfriend's car

[u/enataca → u/JustHereForCatss]

I feel like the sub was pretty united against Texas Tech last month

[u/FortDuChaine → u/JustHereForCatss]

Never thought I’d see the day where Tennessee fans were fully vindicated for hating Lane so much. Bravo.

[u/JDraks → u/JustHereForCatss]

137 fanbases united

[u/Orion14159 → u/JustHereForCatss]

I haven't seen this much united hate even within the conference since Florida was good

[u/12thHam → u/JustHereForCatss]

For real. I have no dog in this fight but all of the sudden I’m anxious about the Clemson game.

[u/NKCougar → u/JustHereForCatss]

Fuck Lane Kiffin, amen

[u/CertifiedCheekClappr → u/JustHereForCatss]

Soresby debacle must have been centuries ago

[u/SunshineRainbowFF → u/JustHereForCatss]

It's funny because I was so in on Ole Miss Lane this time last year.

I guess he couldn't handle being actually well liked after so many years.

[u/whatifevery1wascalm → u/JustHereForCatss]

It just means more

[u/aromatic-energy656 → u/JustHereForCatss]

Really? You werent here for the sorsby fiasco

[u/karl4319 → u/JustHereForCatss]

Us Vols were hating Lane before it was popular.

[u/binzoma → u/JustHereForCatss]

texas tech was literally only weeks ago

[u/The_Chef_Dude → u/JustHereForCatss]

That lsu Tennessee game will be spicy!

[u/saintsfan92612 → u/JustHereForCatss]

I thought everybody hated Brian Kelly :(

[u/PM_a_song_to_me → u/JustHereForCatss]

As a LSU fan. I hate Lane also.

[u/JustHereForCatss → u/PM_a_song_to_me]

I actually feel really bad for you guys, have quite a few friends who are LSU fans and I've had the privilege of seeing quite a few games there- I love y'all. Y'all are one of the most storied and historic fan bases in the sport and don't deserve this.

[u/toolatealreadyfapped → u/JustHereForCatss]

They hate us cuz they anus.

[u/beeboopitty → u/JustHereForCatss]

Which is saying something because you guys been sucking each others dicks chanting SEC! SEC! for decades

[u/jimi-ray-tesla → u/JustHereForCatss]

Don't make lane cry like a toddler with his crank sticking out again