The judge in the Lindsay Clancy case is admonishing jurors who are refusing to follow his instructions

[u/bendubberley_]

[u/HeyIDoubtIt]

It's not neanderthal thinking, it's fucking survival.

Serving on a jury would leave me unable to pay my rent and destroy my bank account. Fuck that.

Pay the jurors a living wage while they do their jobs and this problem disappears.

[u/AllenRBrady → u/HeyIDoubtIt]

That's why, in my opinion, it's time to explore the idea of professional jurors. If we can have an army of people whose job is to argue the law, we could have a corps of people whose full-time, salaried job is to hear cases, follow the court's instructions and remain impartial.

[u/CarpetNibbler → u/AllenRBrady]

You mean like judges?

[u/AllenRBrady → u/CarpetNibbler]

Not exactly. These people would essentially be working for the court, and taking their instructions from the judges. They would not take a direct role in the process of the trial until it was time for deliberations.

[u/DankMiehms → u/AllenRBrady]

If I'm ever on trial the last thing I want is impartial jurors who will unfailingly follow the instructions of the court.

But also I barely trust judges to be impartial, I sure as hell won't trust professional jurors.

[u/Elegant_Tap7937 → u/HeyIDoubtIt]

Then they could deliberate in style...for weeks

[u/paulhollywoodsface → u/HeyIDoubtIt]

“It’s fucking survival” - some Neanderthal-ass, as they sculpt their stone before the hunt

[u/jdubyahyp → u/HeyIDoubtIt]

So you are saying someone that can afford to do jury duty, the theoretical law professor in this scenario we've been discussing, is not a neanderthal for saying if you can't talk your way out you are stupid? Cause that's the subject here. Whole lot of bees and sensitive folks immediately bringing up the financial aspect and ignoring the subject.

[u/Zachwardpass → u/jdubyahyp]

The professor is this story wasn't the one talking about himself getting out of jury duty. He was talking about 12 people on a jury of peers that were too stupid to get out of it like everyone else. You said trying to get out of it is neanderthal thinking. People responding to your generalization of anyone trying to get out of jury duty being a neaderthal is receieving pushback because people have legitimate reasons to want to get it out of it. The joke is wrong because it assumes everyone on jury duty is dumb. The generalization that trying to get out of it is stupid is also wrong. "Sensistive" folks feeling the vice grip between going absolutely broke or doing their civic duty naturally might not like being thought of as "neanderthals".

[u/jdubyahyp → u/Zachwardpass]

But that joke is a symptom of our society. The first reaction now is how to get out of it, instead of how to make it work. People making up whatever to remove themselves from jury duty are part of the problem. Financial problems are legal avenues to being recused from service.

[u/Zachwardpass → u/jdubyahyp]

You have people in this thread telling you they were refused when asking to be recused for financial troubles. If the avenues don't work, people don't have good recourse.The problem is not paying people enough to survive when they get jury duty. They need their income supplemented either by the government or by legal protections with their job regarding paid time off. As I said, fix that, and you will find far more people willing to participate.

Plenty of people are happy to try to make it work—please run for office on your platform to get it changed. I would vote for that, as I think many would. (I would, however, have an easier time voting for you if you weren't simultaneously blowing off the stories of how this effects poorer people currently.)